A Question For Progressives... How Should US Population Be Determined?


Capitalism is not exchange; you’re working on false axioms that no capitalist has ever worked under exchange…this is barter and trade, not capitalism.

Capitalism is an entire social system and set of institutions just as feudalism and slave empires were. Not to mention that if you consider the most primitive peoples…there was no land settlement, immigration, and no surplus.


Capitalism is just free voluntary exchange between self-interested actors, it’s a part of human nature. People aren’t naturally altruistic, they tend to demand compensation in exchange for the disutility of their labor. Have you not participated in this process?


I think that we saw a huge shift in the institutions and how they operate with each other… both enterprise and government, back around the 1920’s. When the purpose of the US government became one of revenue generation to support things far outside its mandate, the crony part of capitalism took over from that which is considered barter and trade. When government forced its way as the keeper of the currency then it had a vested interest in everyone’s business. Those institutions were part and parcel of the authoritarian nature of government you seek.


Capitalism and communism both have caused many deaths, however this has no bearing on if these systems are good as you need to look at the pros and cons, mainly in the field of economics with social policies second and immigration policies third…using death count to measure ideology is literally not an argument.


Well, the difference between the two is that socialism is not intrinsically going to cause famines, there was a lot going on at the time and that is why people like to constantly reference the “100 million” number without any context or understanding. Whereas, with capitalism, there is a functional economic cause of death.

Profit motive and commodity production.


She was talking about the need of communist/socialist countries to remain armed while the imperials west is dismantle… and while your are quite right that neither is innocent, the body count for one is considerably higher than the other. I am most certain that had the US found itself in the same situation as the USSR, Russia and China(even a China as it existed in the early 1990’s) would have been far more aggressive in taking advantage than did the US.

While some direct body count is irrelevant in talking about the relative merits of either system… is a determiner of their respective successes both as institution of living standards and the right to be a human being.


I think a good read about the people who first inhabited under the Mayflower compact. The short of it was, until people had land of their own… they damn near starved to death attempting to adopt the ‘common good’ concept.


And yet, you didn’t answer the question.

Look at what has happened with the migration of illegals into the US. 11-40 million people added and we have wage stagnation. Add another 50 million and let’s see what happens to the US. Will it flourish? Will the standard of living drop as people compete until government steps in and artificially raises wages to no avail?

And as a side note, pure capitalism has never been tried or achieved as government as there to rescue us with more regulations from big bad business.

Unfortunately communism can never work as their is still a ruling class.




That’s odd that the US is missing from that list???


Can you point to points in history and the body counts? It would be interesting to see what you would consider ideological killings… does Planned Parenthood and eugenics count?


Yes planned parenthood deaths should be on that list.




Of course those who want to make the total amount of indigenous American Indians that died because of Europeans will invoke the word ‘Genocide’. While the numbers are unclear it has been repeatedly estimated that some 20 million in the southeast were killed by small pox in a 10 year period. That was about 90% of the indigenous Mexican population.

While their was most certainly the intentional use of ‘infected’ blankets that could most be pointed to as an intentional cause of death, the numbers affected did not come close to what might be called genocidal. The initial numbers of Indians killed by disease we considered unintentional and they, throughout the western hemisphere accounted for the population decimation of 70,80, and 90%'s of various populations.

While their was willful killing, enslavement, dislocation and starvation, those numbers really don’t rise to the definition of ‘genocide’ and the unintentional spread of disease while unfortunate certianly isn’t a ‘genocide’.