Disarming America


#41

Wow, you know you’re in the twilight zone when the right is taking up with Russia and demonizing law enforcement. :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:


#42

You’ll get a lot of push back on the right for that.


#43

Unfortunately many do though, shrug.


#44

So a AR-15 with a changed design that looks like a classic hunting rifle using the same ammunition is OK???


#45

These people are suggesting the small caliber high velocity high volume magazine SA rifles need to be restricted regardless of manufacturer or configuration. The NRA opposes this because their real constituency is gun manufacturers.


#46

You think MM flew down to Florida for that purpose?


#47

I don’t think you know how many lifetime members their are in the NRA… some of them are also lifetime members of other organizations like

image


#48

[quote=“Montecresto1, post:38, topic:6980”]
Nicholas Cruz to a T… law abiding citizen who responsibly purchase and handle their firearms. WTF ???
After ALL the warnings and his erratic behavior you are calling him a law abiding citizen who responsibly purchase and handle their firearms. Are you too working for the FBI ? :laughing::laughing: Man you really have to stop posting such stupid $hit you are embarrassing yourself , don’t you think you look foolish enough without piling on ??? :roll_eyes: By the way I don’t remember all the gun outrage when the illegal killed Kate Steinle in 2015 , WHY ??? SHRUG :roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes:


#49

Some people in Britain would call it disarmament. You may see these federal databases as innocuous little crime prevention tools, but when the IRS can target groups and indeed individuals for their political believes, one has to ask just how easy is it for you to wind up on a no purchase list. A good many law abiding citizens have already found themselves on a no fly list and have little recourse in seeing their names removed…


#50

Politicians always take the Easy way out . Why should any Law Abiding owner of a Military Style weapon be penalized for those Psychopaths crimes.
The 2nd Amendment doesn’t specify a type of weapon, only that the Right of the people to bear arms shall not be Infringed Upon .
I’m sure Reputable gun dealers would prefer a data base of people with violent mental health ddisorders and those with Domestic Abuse Crimes . The protection of everyone to help reduce these horrible crimes out weigh the ACLU s Liberal Diatribe.


#51

It is clear that your understanding of the 2nd amendment and its importance does not align with mine and while the ACLU may have chimed in on this piece of the argument, it doesn’t negate the importance of the second amendment and why it was installed as a fundamental right. Your argument and that of other could reduce the argument of what it means to be ‘armed’ down to a pair of safety scissors.

This is of course a tough argument but most people want to focus on where we are instead of the many compromises to the progressive left that have left us a society adrift of moral and ethical anchor. The easy solution is to take away rights and when you seem to have a government that seems to have forgotten its constitutional underpinnings, giving them more rope to hang you with is not a good choice.

Not many years ago the idea of a presidential hit list and indefinite detention were unthinkable to our nation of liberty and rights. All of this kerfluffle is over yet one more incident where the government already had the tools and the knowledge to prevent it but failed to do so…

I read and article I want to post to see what you think about its conclusions…

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/19/second-amendment-worth-dying/

While not dealing with the issue of the 2nd amendment this article sums up much of the overt nature of our national government and the ever increasing control it has over our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Many people want to argue the precise nature of the words written in the Constitution and only when it benefits their position do they drudge through that many letters, notes and speeches to extract the thought of the people who wrote and signed the Constitution and the many things they too read to educate their opinion.

I add these few comments for your thoughts

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…” – George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

“On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

“I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

“To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.” – George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.” – George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.” – Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.” – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.” – James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“…the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone…” – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” – Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.” – Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

“This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.” – St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.” – Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” – Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

“The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.” – Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

“What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty …. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” – Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

“If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

“[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

“As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.” – Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

As a final thought by Sigmund Freud that progressive liberals often use to justify their positions:


#52

So one could argue that the 2nd amendment protects my right to own a 20 mm cannon AA gun. No reasonable person has denied the 2nd amendment, not unlike the 1st, has limitations.


#53

I would suggest that when you compare and AR15 to a 20mm cannon, you set that part pretty low already…


#54

Nobody is, has been or will be. And when Americans are good and fed up with civilian access to military style weapons that are designed for the battlefield, they will be banned. But the second amendment will not have been harmed.


#55

I like the way your preface the comment with the word ‘Style’… This has absolutely nothing to do with military grade weapons…

image

Hint: it is a Mercedes 300SL ‘style’ car… but to avoid any confusion I will tell you… it isn’t a real Mercedes but in the hands of an inappropriate driver could kill someone.


#56

Common sense legislation that the right would fight. And a ban on military style weapons, anything that shoots the smaller caliber high velocity SA rifles with high capacity magazines are what can be found on the battlefields around the world, they have no place in the hands of civilians and the TIC knows this and has himself supported such bans. He just needs to forget about disco balls and lead.


#57

The AR 15 is not designed nor has it ever been on a battlefield.

But don’t let the truth get in your way.


#58

One could just as easily ask why military application weaponry was ever made available to civilians to begin with. The select fire dropped when marketed for law enforcement and civilian use. The Military gave it the M-16 monicker and retained the select fire feature.

The ArmaLite AR-15 is a select-fire, 5.56×45mm, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault rifle, with a rotating bolt and straight-line recoil design. It was designed by Eugene Stoner, Jim Sullivan and Bob Fremont and it is based on the ArmaLite AR-10 rifle. The AR-15 was designed above all else to be a lightweight assault rifle, and to fire a new lightweight, high-velocity small caliber cartridge to allow the infantrymen to carry more ammunition. Colt marketed the redesigned AR-15 rifle to various military services around the world


#59

Monte I hope you know that s Federal Firearms License is needed to own certain weapons. The same license is required for pawnshop to posess and sell firearms made after a certain date.
Law abiding people in the majority will be penalized for not being able to posess military style rifles. I hope you know there’s a difference between an assault rifle and a Military style rifle .The AR 15 is as a semi automatic weapon only. However some people modify it to also fire automatically .Your car comparison is Absolutely Ridiculous and baseless.
Giving these Loons an and they will take a mile. If they wanted to do something useful they should go after those straw purchasers of weapons and the drug gangs but that would require too much Real Work.
Penalizing lawabiding people is much easier and cheaper with better headlines that they’re really doing something useful .Quit hiding your head in the sand .


#60

The car comparison was not his but mine and it was actually spot on because the only word he has and continually uses is

Style

and that car is a 1/2 scale of the real car but it will still go 50mph…