How should our healthcare system work?


And I just read in the NYT that we paid the insurance companies reinsurance claims for September.

Lov it when a plan comes together.


Been there did that.

Driving on I25 going 70mph. A person cut in front of me, missing my from end by a foot or 2. I immediately started slowing and the person slammed on the brakes. I clipped the rear corner of the vehicle.

The person left the scene and the only thing that people saw, no license plate and 4 hispanic males ion their 20 were in the auto. They hit another vehicle in the next lane leaving the scene.

Yes, I received a ticket even though I had witnesses. My insurance company tagged me with the accident and paid for the other vehicle even though it wasn’t a part of my accident.

The vehicle and driver of the other vehicle was never found.

yeah, we need more illegals in this country.


How should our healthcare system work?

It should just work.

It will work when we have single payer. At the moment, the ACA is the main obstacle to single payer. Wavering R “moderates” (only in comparison to other Rs would these people be thought of as moderate) have been put on notice by so many Ds rallying behind single payer that the Ds will push single payer if these Rs let the ACA – a Heritage Foundation plan pushed by Romney for Massachusetts when he was its governor – fail. Insofar as public policy drives them, you would have to assume that R moderates would prefer Romneycare/Obamacare, a basically R solution, to single payer. Insofar as these “moderates” are paying any attention to the public policy issues involved, and their interface with politics, this recent show of D unity behind single payer would be the most powerful inducement possible for them to not only keep the ACA alive, but to do their best to make sure it thrives.

If we’re not seeing an obvious and overwhelming rush on the part of these Rs to reject this latest ACA repeal, it’s because public policy isn’t a real concern of theirs. Things are looking less and less good for their team with every passing week. They think their team needs a win. It at the very least needs a distraction. When they look at the Trump/Russia investigation especially, they see an existential threat to their team. If their team doesn’t get a win soon, they are afraid that they will soon be faced with a choice between continuing to support Trump staying in office, versus jumping ship and getting rid of him via impeachment or the 25th. Their need to avoid having to takes sides on the removal of Trump outweighs any and all public policy concerns.

If these R “moderates” let the ACA be killed off by this Cassidy-Graham monstrosity, it won’t be because fear of single payer has driven them to jag rightwards. Fear of single payer would get them to do whatever they could to bolster Romneycare. If they really do go ahead and kill off the ACA, it will be in a desperate bid to avoid having to kill off Trump’s tenure in office.


I can basically agree with what you’re saying. It takes time for these things to happen, but single payer is the logical conclusion and it will come to America.


Even if the PPACA had not passed, single payer would remain one of several options that can be used to improve or achieve universality.

The biggest obstacles to single payer in fact appear to be (a) a lack of support in Congress, (b) lack of support by the public, c) the massive financial cost of implementing single payer, and (d) the enormous disruption that would result from a transition to single payer.

The PPACA is not the Heritage Foundation’s plan. Its only significant common element with that plan is the individual mandate.


Ah another acolyte of single payer.

Just how will you pay for it?

Will you cap doctors pay?

Will you cap the cost of service, blood, MRI, Cat sans?

Will you cap the cost of Hospitals?

Perhaps nationalize all healthcare services including drug and medical equipment companies?

How will you deal with doctor/provider shortages, rationing, long waits?

Perhaps a national sales tax would do the trick.

Findland and Sweden have over 50% income related taxes and few are exempt. That ok with you?


Oh yes, no doubt about, single payer is an astonishingly unpopular, amazingly expensive, complete disruptor. You take Medicare – complete and final electoral poison. Support it and you’re in the political graveyard before the sun sets. So imagine supporting Medicare for All. Oh, and the expense! Medical loss ratio in the low single digits for Medicare vs 30-40% minimum for private insurance, so it’s as clear as 2+2=4 that getting rid of the private insurers simply has to add zillions to what we pay for medical care in this country. Less is more, so a high loss ratio simply has to mean great savings that we will have to give up if we go with single payer. And, yes, the disruption! Imagine the screams of the damned when we try to separate patients from their beloved family insurers. We Americans love mom, and apple pie, and the flag, but those loyalties are as nothing compared to the place in our hearts held by our providers of medical insurance and the thousands of people they employ to keep us from being too greedy in our demands for medical care. Tear that sacred bond asunder, and who knows what chaos ensues, what an orgy of people finally getting care that they need!

Look, every scheme under discussion is single payer in the sense that the govt is the final payer somewhere up the chain of middlemen, if only by way of foregone taxation or some other dodge. The differences between different schemes are entirely a matter of exactly where we let middlemen collect wholly undeserved, unearned, parasitic rents. A reasonably pure single payer just maximizes the cuts to those rent collection opportunities compared to other schemes out there, by getting rid of as many middlemen as possible. The wealthy will perhaps pay more in taxes, and many of them will lose some sweet rents, but the rest of us can easily outvote them. Yes, many people now employed by the insurers to deny care will have to find work that is socially useful rather than socially destructive. May we see many more such disruptions! Not that they will have much trouble finding useful work, because the care now denied will then be available, and providing that care will take at least as much paid labor as denying it. I work those vineyards myself, and I see no prospect that we will ever lack for work that needs willing hands to do it.


And of course a diversion without answering a question.

So tell me, how do you personally benefit?

Having someone else pay most of your healthcare costs?


My take is go back 25 years! What were we doing then as compared to now?


25 years ago we did not have the want free, vote for me crowd.
We did not have 11-40 million illegals visiting our ER’s.
We did not have 1 trillion+ wasted by government own healthcare.
We were not quite as litigious.


Let’s go back a hundred and fifty years, how we’re we doing then compared to now?


I still can’t get anybody to tell me when MAGA was and what that means.


A trillion dollars can be “wasted” on providing people with health care, housing, food and shelter and that’s always met with disdain. But multi trillions can be spent on war, regime change, killing people and destroying infrastructure in countries and it’s totally excused. Something is very wrong with that mentality.


25 years ago we did not have all this crap. Drug companies did not run ads and waste all the money they do now.


I’m no fan of the billions made by big pharma. But is there something else?


Many facets here. Drug prices are higher here for one to supplement other countries. Bot in those exact terms but that is what it amounts to.


Not certain what you mean by that. The government negotiates drug prices for Medicare which are far cheaper then what you pay for them via PI.


The private insurance is a racket and those negotiated prices? How well are they negotiated?


Agreed, PI is a racket. The CEO’s of large insurance companies receive depending, 5, 10, 20 million and more a year in compensation.


Lets go back 1000 years and see how we’re doing compared to today.

Get a grip.