The Pied Pipers of the Left ... And Their Ideological... Perceptivity?


#1

It is sad that so many people fall for the allure of the socialist promise… after all, even Marx knew that their could be no pure communism anywhere if their was a glimmer of capitalism anywhere…


#2

Full disclosure, I don’t think Marx was a bad guy. I’m not a Marxist, but I do think that it was reasonable for someone to consider that all economic systems may have a life cycle. That’s what Marx did with capitalism and described what a post-capitalist system might look like in the future. There is nothing wrong with coming up with a theory. What everyone seems to get wrong is that, as you said, in order for communism to work (along the lines of Marxist theory) there can’t be a capitalist system around to compete with. It just won’t work. It was a key tenet of Marxism and it’s one that his followers consistently seem to over look.


#3

[quote=“ZED, post:2, topic:3484”]
in order for communism to work (along the lines of Marxist theory) there can’t be a capitalist system around to compete with.

in order for communism to work (along the lines of Marxist theory) there cannot be people in charge. People are inherently greedy and corrupt any system such as communism. Why didn’t communism succeed in Russia, the greed of their leaders, China, the greed of their leaders. Show me 1 country that has had communism as a base system that didn’t have leaders living better than the people.


#4

“Pide” sez it all…


#5

The right has not learned about spell check yet.


#6

:rolling_eyes: :rolling_eyes: :rolling_eyes: Happy now?.. you can go on ignoring the content… the left is quite adept at diversion…


#7

Indeed, it’s the only argument you have, spelling. Sad.

p.s. I am a bit more understanding as the keyboarded my computer is a bit defective and I always try and review my posts however sometime it just slips by. Time to find a new keyboard for the laptop.


#8

I am supposed to argue that corruption is an inherent part of a political philosophy- upon which that philosophy’s mettle rests? Please. Nobody hoped for that outcome in Venezuela- or anywhere for that matter. I certainly did not hope that our own form of Democracy would fall prey to extremism and corruption, poorly informed consent and a bully pulpit for the least among us… But were I to discuss Democracy’s efficacy I would not probably typify it through human frailty’s triumph.


#9

Yet some folks seem to be exceedingly slow in understanding the causes…


#10

People may not have hoped for the outcome in Venezuela’s communist society however, the reality is people a the top flourish while the people at the bottom struggle. The collective farm system didn’t work in Russia, why would it work in Venezuela? Where’s the incentive for producing more on the collective farm?


#11

Your discription of flourishing kinda sound like the complaint of our own ‘at the bottom’ people. That plaint secured Trump’s election in large part. What’s your point?


#12

Causes? Was there more to it than corruption or despotism? That is exactly what the Dems and growing ranks of repubs are concerned with here! Care to clarify this for me?


#13

Well, really no… no more than has ever resulted from the concentration of power and government meddling in economic things they really can’t hope to understand…


#14

I suspect the economic activists in politics understand it well enough. They all seem to get elected to do good and retire having done quite well…


#15

Well they certainly know how to manipulate their constituents into reelecting them while using congressional protection to insider trade against those very constituents but as far as a few silly people in Washington surrounded by Harvard educated Keynesian economists postulating their vast understanding of the millions of people creating billions of transactions each day for very personal reasons and using that knowledge to uplift the people and nation they were elected to work for… no, I don’t think they understand at all…


#16

Actually, yes.

There is corruption everywhere, including here; despotism is relative- if your side’s not in power, the other side is despotic (at least if you are a progressive).

This had to do with the first two 'ism’s but more to do with Socialism. It doesn’t work, it cannot work, and it can only be enforced through fear. Maduro and the rest of the socialists sold a huge lie to the poor- you have nothing to lose but your chains… Now they wish they had chains, perhaps they could sell them for a meal.


#17

You seem somehow unaware of the fact that there is socialism involved in much of benevolent governance: Our military, our highway system, our public school system. Our tithing of our ruling class is even an example of our own socialist tendencies to be corrupted. Our patron saint Jesus was apparently a socialist and we honor religions’ charity with tax exempt status. Not all socialism is bad- or good. he Sanders Brand of Democratic Socialism nearly elected the man.


#18

Understand the Constitutional responsibility of the federal government to provide defense is not socialism… some aspects of how it is paid for however might be considered a deviation from that constitution. As far as communities pooling resource to provide fire and police, that is more of an agreed community agreement for each of those services. The difference of course is that you can still be a citizen of this country and vacate the oderous decisions of a community or state… taking it to the federal makes everyone in Montana responsible for the decisions of everyone in Mississippi with no way to opt out. As far as your reference to Jesus and our Judeo Christian value system, many liberals will attempt to equate a force community action with individual faith and deed… not the same…


#19

Socialism involves raising funds from the populous for the populous. Hardly a deviation… The Constitution doesn’t mandate Capitalism either. Agreed community projects are socialism in action by definition. Jesus not an advocate of Socialism??? Please briefly define Socialism for me. Democracy too comes in many flavors- but ‘at the consent of the people’ ties them together in the end.


#20

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. - If Jesus were a socialist, he would have said ‘the fishermen, the greedy fishermen, we must take their boats and nets for the people! Kill the fishermen! Vote to keep me in power and I’ll force the fishermen to give you all they risked their lives for!’

Naw, Jesus advocated charity for those truly unable to fend for themselves, and had no interest in ruling people for his own gain. Definitely not a socialist.

And always has, but socialism has never remained at the consent of the people- only at their fearful acceptance. As to your comment about public works, agreement to share the pain to share the gain is not socialism, it is civilization.

Socialism has always consisted of one or a few dictating to the many what shall be done with the wealth of a society, and there is effectively no input from the regular folk.

Socialism has never worked because it removes the incentive for achievement from those who must innovate, and penalizes, rather than rewards any sort of business success.