The Pied Pipers of the Left ... And Their Ideological... Perceptivity?


#61

Communism isn’t about the individual wanting to give to the state but the state taking. Just like socialism.


#62

Estate tax promotes those who, via no work or merit of their own, are born on third. That is exactly how dynastic rule works. At the same time that you refuse to see that you talk out of the other side of your mouth about how poverty should be entrenched by refusing to see the parallels of being born on the strike outs of those parents from different lineage. That is a core of why America repudiated the Monarchy that spawned our Revolution and, indeed, the heart of our Constitution that was an historic attempt to end the enshrined dynastic classism that ruled Europeans tie that time.

Why I will bet you consider flat tax as an improvement over progressive taxation too?


#63

Your in-depth explanation of socialism /communism is silly- and I am not a socialist. BTW our military is basically a socialist construct. Most government programs are. Sometimes we forget the benefit of Social programs. Naive.


#64

While this seems logical to those who only see the world through government taxation. A newly inherited estate will provide the person who inherited it with three options… 1) sit on it and count the ever diminishing value of the money in the safe. This of course eventually leads to bankruptcy and the loss of the family fortune… 2) They are very cavalier about their new found wealth and just like a lottery winner, they go out and support the jobs of the makers of goods and services until they eventually run out of money leading to bankruptcy and the loss of the family fortune… or 3) They are prudent with the money and use it to invest in business which employs people and distributes wealth throughout the population while saving for their children future… Either way, ashes to ashes… The only thing I have some personal doubt about is amassing large amounts of property…like Ted Turner tying up two million acres…


#65

Most times we ignore the harm…Naive.


#66

Oh- anti military, public education, national highways, RR and merchant marine, SS and medicare and… okay- got it.

Ayn Rand, apparently a hero of yours, was thankful of ‘socialism’ in her own last years…


#67

Yawn… we’ve been here before Mark… the military is an agreed constitutional requirement… check… I have no problem with some form of universally provided education, just as long as it is from a singular mouthpiece… I really don’t believe that 6th graders should get state provided IUD’s with parents consent, much less knowledge but the public school system has educated kids on sex so well that they need these devices… too bad they can’t do math. Highways, RR and merchant marines were all a private function long before they became a function of the individual states and certainly the federal government.

Social security would have worked if it had been treated as a supplement rather than a retirement plan… but how else could liberals get votes but to say that the state is providing for your retirement… Don’t even get me started on why we need medicare… and insurance…


#68

“…the military is an agreed constitutional requirement… check” = Socialism is folded seamlessly into our Constitution. Universal education may not be simply equated with each and every tweak, glitch or bump in the road in that ‘system’. It Certainly should not be thrown out willy-nilly in favor of special interest education or indoctrination. That is what vouchers create.
Defense Highways were never private and the US Merchant Marine fell to America’s successful economy and living standards- too successful to compete any more but important to national interests none-the-less.
SS is still considered supplemental. That we see poverty and poor health as too expensive to ignore has little to do with its efficacy as a “socialist” program. Healthcare will someday be accepted as just that as well- less expensive than the growing alternative of disability and poor health (Social Darwinism sides with the right of course- If they can’t flourish screw 'em).
Now your avatar is stripping Medicaid, and, if successful, you will immediately start seeing exactly what I speak of.


#69

You miss the difference between a socialist society that uses the force of government to remove wealth from one and give it to another… and something such as a volunteer fire department and community donations providing the equipment… You will never see that kind of ‘coming together’ at the national level… some things were designed to be local… only with the subversion of the constitution did they become a national enterprise. Common defense was agreed by all states before the ratification, not after… as a matter of fact it was only one of a few things intended to be managed at the national level… all other liberties were take… thats what happens to liberties when statists get in power…


#70

Social security would have worked if the politicians would not have added:
Disability.
SSDA
Spousal benefits.
Children’s benefits.
9 million ways to claim SS so you can get more.
Lowering the retirement age to 62.

All this and they expect it to be solvent.


#71

No, I see both of your examples as aspects of what is defined as “Socialism”- as in PoliSci 101. No system is without flaws- flawed people and flawed models. It doesn’t make me ‘anti Capitalist’ or ‘anti Democracy’ to critique either one in a particular context. That is what democracy offer to people.

I Object to people choosing to ignore a government redistributing wealth upward (where it normally gravitates on its own) while castigating redistribution downward (where it supports families and puts cash back into our economy virtually instantly.


#72

So do I but as we saw with absolute clarity in 2008, the government does not let its favorite sons fail under their own hubris. and Between regulations written for and by representatives of various large companies for the express purpose of market skewing advantage and subsides which prop up governments political agenda or the profit interests of politicians, we do not come close to free market conditions. For those at the top, it is government that provides cover for monopoly power because without government the only monopolies that exist in private industry are those that actually deserve it through superior product or service.

The only reason prices for the vast majority of generally available commodities isn’t cheap enough for the poorest in the US is that government policy directly prohibits it from occurring. We have a federal reserve that is allowed (encouraged by those who profit from it… some are even politicians) to artificially manipulate asset prices. More than anything, fed policy created the housing bubble in 2008. When the bubble broke, the only people that saw pain were those less well off because rather than the market saying what the price of a house is… between government and the fed, wealthier people and banks were spared the reduction in the asset price, even if the house sat empty through foreclosure. Government policy kept houses out of the reach of the poor… and by not allowing houses to find the ‘real’ market value rents stayed high and so did entry level homes.

On the flip side you have a government that incentives laziness which taxpayers have to pay for and at the same time allows industry to cry that it NEEDS cheap foreign labor. So we allow people to come in from Mexico and send a significant part of their wealth back to Mexico while the taxpayer gets soaked for at least 20 million able bodied Americans who find it easier to live in subsistence than compete with Mexicans who, in Mexico would do the same work for a quarter of the money.

Then, on top of that… On top of pushing product prices up with asset price manipulation, mountains of regulations… many overlapping and redundant, licensing fees for licenses that are created to protect industry segments from competition… the government decides that the fix is to force everyone to pay an artificially high wage.

Son, that is the attributes of a socialist/fascist government operation. It controls production, it manipulates prices, it sets wages, dictates social and cultural change … not much left for a free man or free market their I am afraid.

Folks in your camp will say that it is because of the evil of the private market… the evil I am afraid is mainly the symbiotic relationship between money men and those who profit from money men and as we know, people who go to Washington almost always come away significantly more wealthy… and all the while the write ever stricter laws to punish a cop on the take…

Volunteer cooperation is not socialism… being lead around by policy created at the point of a gun is socialism… and I am still wondering why the so many administrative departments like the Dept of Education and Social Security bought so much ammunition for those guns.


#73

We look at the same facts and draw different conclusions. I just hope that the democratic process remains intact so that both of us continue to have a voice. The healthcare bill being drawn up behind closed doors with a timeline before recess that precludes even reading the document before a vote just ramps up the complaints of the GOP as per how Obamacare was passed. A positive and beneficial outcome gets dimmer by the day. How can republicans support this pattern of behavior while mouthing claims of fascist/socialist (hardly similar systems to put int a ingle idea) is surprising and unconvincing?

I am all about “private market”- as I understand your use of the concept. I am not enthused with entirely unregulated predation or the enshrinement of a ruling class through that market place however. Democracy is the first victim to dynastic plutocrats, the robber barons who try to call inheritance tax, for instance, The Death Tax. Who does a non-progressive tax structure serve? Who benefits, in the short run, from income disparity, from no capital gains taxes? Who is served by workers earning small fractions of what the aristocracy and their stockholders make- often for not even showing up?

Regulation of a free market system is apparently crucial when greed is the principle driver. ‘Greed’ is too often used interchangeably with ‘ambition’. That is a fallacy.


#74

I don’t ‘support this nonsense’ but I can tell you this… I am damned well tired of the continual capitulation to the progressive agenda with no relevance being given in return… I repeat… Trump was not elected in a vacuu. He was elected by a substantial group of really angry people and because what progressives couldn’t chip away through ‘compromise’ was shut down by political correctness… Political Correctness has been shattered in a rather dramatic way and the left can’t deal with the dialog… don’t believe me, watch the videos at evergreen state.

You and I have talked about the damages done to America by many of the progressive Great society programs… you have even admitted that harm has been done… but in true progressive fashion, undoing anything detrimental or otherwise is seen as ‘going backwards’ and is stonewalled… I am afraid that tactic is coming to an end… if for no other reason than the fact that we are 20trillion in debt and the divergence between forward debt and revenue isn’t pretty…


#75

Anger may not be the best way for making decisions. We do stupid things when our sentiments overtake our common sense. You don’t think Trump shares your anger in any way do you? He thrives on your fear and your anger. I suspect more and more American’s are realizing that every day- that Trump is not representing their concerns but merely using those concerns to fuel his own agenda.


#76

You not talking about smooth talking, modulated voice (except the stutter when he is at a loss for words), hope and change president that has gotten the left to believe that people who actually have some inclining of human nature KNOW that not everyone can co-exist … and that unilateral loss of national sovereignty not unlike unilateral nuclear disarmament is reckless and a bit stupid.

No, anger isn’t the best way to operate but when attempts at representation though civil discourse don’t get your message listened to… sometime you just have to get a bullhorn. What the left have a problem here is that certain segments of the right are becoming just as loud and belligerent as the left has always been…


#77

Trump survives because of the progressive nonsense as well as the stupidity of the left.


#78

Did you think that one up by yourself?


#79

What would an adult do if he were not able to get along with somebody? You condone name calling and fighting words as a permissible response to antipathy? AND you congratulate the election of bureaucrats base on the level of communication? Glad you are not a diplomat representing my interests with a baseball bat for addressing a hornet nest…


#80

Give me a break… the silent majority didn’t get that name for no reason… The kept their heads down and worked to support their families and communities… progressives contently pressed their SJ mimes but refuse to address the massive failures of the Great Society with anything but MORE MONEY… Some folks got tired of it and the Tea Party emerged… The weren’t particularly loud but even their relatively quite and I might add totally non violent demonstrations were enough to set the left into hysteria … The right has yet to beat people in the street, smash atm’s, burn police cars, incite violence through ‘comedy and theater’ or shoot elected representatives or burn their headquarters… I’d say it was your folks that have a hard problem controlling themselves…

You may have considered people who didn’t speak up as being apathetic… but now that they have a voice you somehow find them to be dangerous… P.S. one can certianly get stung bashing a hornets nest… but if you do it jussst right, you will destroy that nest with narrey a sting…