USA Approaching 20T in Debt - The End is Near


#1

We are quickly approaching the budgetary point of no return and there is nothing that can be done about it. Once we pass 20T in debt China will cash in their chips and America will collapse economically. You will all be helpless.

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The federal debt moved above $19,400,000,000,000 for the first time as of the close of business on Tuesday, according to the data released today by the U.S. Treasury.

At the close of business on Monday, July 18, the total federal debt was $19,391,094,247,028.26, according to the Treasury. By the close of business on Tuesday, July 19, it had risen to $19,402,361,890,929.46.

On Friday, Oct. 30, 2015, Congress passed the “Bipartisan Budget Act,” which suspended the legal debt limit until March 15, 2017. President Obama signed that bill into law on Monday, Nov. 2, 2015

At the close of business on Oct. 30, the federal debt stood at $18,152,981,685,747.52.

In the less than nine months since then, the federal debt has increased by $1,249,380,205,181.94

Title IX of the Bipartisan Budget Act is entitled “Temporary Extension of Public Debt Limit.” The Congressional Research Service summary explains that part of the law this way: “The public debt limit is suspended through March 15, 2017. On March 16, 2017, the limit is increased to accommodate obligations issued during the suspension period.”

Prior to President Obama signing the Bipartisan Budget Act, the Treasury had been in a “debt issuance suspension period” that Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew had declared on March 16, 2015. During that “debt issuance suspension period” the Treasury took what it calls “extraordinary measures” to prevent the debt from exceeding what was then the legal limit.


#2

Alright @ChillChet let me explain why this doesn’t matter.

In short, we just pay off old debt with new debt, and the majority of said debt is owed to ourselves (about 1/3 is to china but we will never pay that).

Additionally, while out Nominal Debt is high, or proportional or Real Debt isn’t, it’s why we aren’t worried about our debts versus the shit Greece puts up with, Japan additionally has a high debt compared to how much they make, for example.

When a nation makes 18 Trillion a year, a debt of 19 Trillion isn’t something to worry about.

The media needs to make money off of advertising space. That’s all that is happening here.


#3
Millions $	% GDP	$ Per Capita

2014 18,210,557 104.97% 57,063
2013 17,462,595 104.80% 55,140
2012 16,558,508 102.50% 52,668
2011 15,361,737 98.99% 49,225
2010 14,175,846 94.73% 45,764
2009 12,404,694 86.03% 40,357
2008 10,721,652 72.84% 35,185
2007 9,267,494 64.01% 30,697
2006 8,817,883 63.64% 29,498
2005 8,496,697 64.89% 28,694
2004 8,038,972 65.49% 27,400
2003 6,735,555 58.52% 23,168
2002 6,079,217 55.38% 21,107
2001 5,631,898 53.02% 19,746
2000 5,456,855 53.03% 19,321
1999 5,685,526 58.88% 20,373
1998 5,678,174 62.47% 20,571
1997 5,648,937 65.62% 20,706
1996 5,510,358 68.03% 20,441
1995 5,272,904 68.80% 19,789
1994 5,071,770 69.39% 19,261
1993 4,828,298 70.19% 18,560
1992 4,486,290 68.61% 17,472
1991 4,097,634 66.37% 16,171
1990 3,706,533 61.99% 14,823
1989 3,410,385 60.28% 13,791
1988 3,159,256 60.15% 12,897
1987 2,886,835 59.28% 11,892
1986 2,640,301 57.52% 10,974
1985 2,351,233 54.09% 9,862
1984 2,000,685 49.51% 8,466
1983 1,740,789 47.85% 7,432
1982 1,504,575 44.98% 6,482
1981 1,294,824 40.33% 5,632
1980 1,178,733 41.18% 5,178


#4

So, do we see a trend here KVN?


#5

@KVN I’m going to have to agree with @ChillChet and @DollarInflation - this is not simply irrelevant because we are off the gold standard and can theoretically print more money. Printing more money as you suggest is a known trigger of currency destabilization. Might want to brush up on your economics.


#6

Think that 18 trillion a year can be used to pay the 19 trillion in debt?


#7

No. My point was that the delta between the two is not so significant that it should be deemed a concern.


#8

You should be very concerned.

Add 1% to the debt, 500 billion more in interest?

You are correct some of it is SS/Medicare. Think anyone would catch on that there is no trust fund if they didn’t add it to the Trust fund numbers?

It isn;t just about the current debt load but future debt. One day investors will say, no thanks, I want 7% to cover the risk factor.


#9

Can someone explain to me national debt?
from Wikipedia: “The terms national deficit and national surplus usually refer to the federal government budget balance from year to year, not the cumulative total. A deficit year increases the debt because more money is spent than is received; a surplus year decreases the debt because more money is received than spent.”

Where does the government get the money that cause the deficit? Does the treasury just give/print out more money?

And if a surplus year happens what happens with the surplus money?


#10

It’s borrowed from banks, primarily domestic.

Surplus is used to pay off debt

The US consumer is married to credit. If they can’t “borrow” money for a house, car, college, etc. Then spending stops. If spending stops the labor market crashes and so with it the economy.

It’s all based on consumer spending. It has the potential to collapse one day.

For example: this is why the wealthiest people in America are buying up land like there is no tomorrow. Land will retain value in hard times. It’s a tangible asset.


#11

Yes, they just print the money. That’s why a house that cost 20K in 1970 costs 200K today. When they have a surplus, which hasn’t consistently happened since the 1920’s, they either invest the money in hard assests like gold or but back obligation bonds.

Yeah, it’s real money, but it’s based on trust of the issuer. To Lou’s point above, if they stopped artificially surpressing the interest rate the national debt would take off like a rocket ship gaining hundreds upon hundreds of billions of dollars in short order.


#12

National Debt vs. Budget Deficits

Before addressing how the national debt affects a people and a nation, it is first important to understand what the difference is between the federal government’s annual budget deficit, and the country’s national debt. Simply explained, the federal government generates a budget deficit whenever it spends more money than it brings in through income generating activities such as taxes. In order to operate in this manner, the Treasury Department has to issue treasury bills, treasury notes and treasury bonds to compensate for the difference. By issuing these types of securities, the federal government can acquire the cash that it needs to provide governmental services. The national debt is simply the net accumulation of the federal government’s annual budget deficits.

Read more: What The National Debt Means To You | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/national-debt.asp#ixzz4F8UXtxWU
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#13

We are approaching such high debt levels because of the two unnecessary wars that President Obama inherited from Bush. If you recall, President Clinton handed Bush a surplus and your proud Republican president squandered it on pointless wars.


#14

Oh - and Obamacare and social welfare programs did nothing to increase the national debt. Ok. Wow. You need to read the Economist @FiredUpDem

You also didn’t address the issue.

Think of it this way:

19 trillion Ă· 300 million people = $63,333.33 of individual personal debt.

That means if everyone paid that in taxes to the federal government then the debt would be paid off.

That’s how bad it really is.

That’s terrifying.


#15

You know what is really terrifying…that the super wealthy end up paying less in taxes than the common person. If the super wealthy actually paid their taxes and were sanctioned for hiding money overseas then I assure you that our national debt would all but be eliminated and college tuition would be free. The fact that in 2016 we haven’t gone after these wealthy individuals and their tax haven shell corporations is truly scary. Wake up.


#16

I’m not an advocate of tax evasion so you won’t trick me into advocating such a position with your loaded response. I do think people and corporations should pay taxes. I never argued against that. What you need to consider is that trying to punish people for being successful and becoming wealthy is not a coherent tax strategy. Lowering taxes on all individuals, lowering the corporate tax burden, and eliminating unnecessary spending is an actual strategy. Oh, and the reason Clinton had a surplus was because of the Reagan and GHW Bush fiscal strategies. Clinton rode that wave and the tech bubble of the 90s. Republicans provided him with a surplus. That was not the doing of Democrats.


#17

Ok - I can’t resist. @FiredUpDem @KVN

People who say the debt is a non-issue are completely stupid and uneducated. Around 7% of our yearly budget is interest on the debt. That continues to climb as Obongo continues to add more debt. It could “technically” not matter if the economy grew fast enough to outpace spending but the economy doesn’t grow fast enough so that’s irrelevant. I’m going to be laughing (and crying) when our country is paying 25% of its budget as interest a few decades from now because liberals needed give handouts.

Federal government debt is 76 percent as a share of GDP, compared with 39 percent in 2008. It’s on track to become 100%+ in another 8yrs which at that point makes the US into a failing first world state like Italy and Greece.


#18

I wish they would raise the taxes on every corporation that you buy from, send the IRS to collect every damn dime… and add every bit of it to the cost of the things YOU buy to make up the costs…

You silly putts… according to Forbes if you stripped the 100 most wealthy people in the US of their entire worth so that they could no longer own or buy a house, own a business or pay taxes again… you wouldn’t have enough to pay off current student debt… And good look to those students trying to find work… those 100 people represent, outside of the biggest tax sucker of all, the US Government, most of the largest employers in the US…


#19

Not to mention we have yet tp pay for WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam. They keep on refinancing the debt.

Werner they all Democrat wars?


#20

Imagine what the interest will be when rates rise.

The 10 year treasuries were refinanced under operation spin 1&2.