Wake Up America!


#21

All the North Korea talk is a tempest in a teacup. They ain’t gonna do shit.

There are factions in the USA that want war to:

  • Consume Trump’s presidency
  • Distract public from swamp draining
  • Bring in more revenue to to defense industry

Don’t give them a war - keep the heat turned up domestically and focus on MAGA


#22

I absolutely, 100% agree with you and with your sentiments. For some, any engagement is a good engagement… they all lead to unstated goals, however, their is one thing that just eats me up… The Kim’s for some 65 years have extorted greater and greater amounts of bounty and concessions from the world so that they will stop this program or cancel that project. They have always managed to get what they want and continue doing what they want all the while becoming a larger and larger threat. They don’t need and haven’t needed nuclear weapons to press their case… they just needed a few thousand artillery pieces and rockets aimed at Seoul to win bully their way… One gets tired of the extortion after a while… after all, the UN part of the ‘police action’ ended a long time ago…


#23

There is no reason to conclude Kim is unstable. And Trump is less free to act than Kim.


#24

In Manila at the moment, the ten ASEAN foreign ministers are meeting and there are representatives from another 16 countries, mainly Asian, attending. Tillerson is in Manila as well as the North Korean foreign minister. Meetings between China, Russia, South Korea and North Korea are arranged on the side. Tillerson is not officially part of those.

I think people need to be a bit calm, in spite of what Trump says and tweets. We and the rest of the world need to learn to ignore what he says. The fundamentals have not really changed, North Korea wants security for their current regime. That is not very good for North Koreans in my opinion, but avoiding a conflagration is pretty good for the rest of Asia and the world. The essentials of mutual assured destruction have not changed and Kim is not a madman. I suspect that some of the bellicose talk is being done as a distraction. We need to resist being distracted. (As an aside, an evil thought problem is how would the Ukraine situation have played out if Ukraine had not given up their nuclear weapons at the time of the breakup of the USSR?)


#25

@Ryno I agree with this – we need to take a deep breath (stealing from @Dan) on the NK situation:

  • Kim is not irrational – he wants above all preservation of his regime and he has seen what happens to strongmen who do not have nukes (see Iraq, Libya, and nearly Iran).
  • He has developed a weapon that is not suited for first strike – too few of them, too inaccurate. To return to the terminology of the 1950’s, it is a counter-value weapon suited only for response against big targets like cities. Use it first against the US and NK would be vaporized – refer to bullet above.
  • Kim wants the weapon to deter US-threatened regime change – recall GWB and “axis of evil” speech.
  • China has indicated to the US what it wants to solve the NK problem – namely that the US remove all US military forces from the Korean Peninsula, meaning a peace treaty that recognizes NK – absent that, they simply will protect their border and keep the conversations moving.
  • Preventive attack on NK would jeopardize tens of thousands in ROK and, if nuclear, would dump radiation all over Japan and Alaska; NK preemptive attack on Guam would lead to massive response – see bullet one.

However, having said that, Trump’s bellicosity has consequences. Doubtful there will be any preventive US military attack on NK, even in response to Kim’s “see your threat and I raise one notch” counter threat. Trump will have to find a way to tone it down, reducing his credibility everywhere. Combined with his lukewarm endorsement of NATO Article 5, this will further undermine the credibility and cohesion of the NATO alliance, and by extension, perhaps our relationship with Japan. Don’t forget that elections are coming in Germany and Merkel will have to operationalize her statement that Germany will have to take its future into its own hands. To the extent Trump plays the playground bully role and cannot follow up, the role of the US in the world suffers. The winner? As with so many things Trumpian, the Russians are the winners.


#26

Game theory assumes that two opposing sides are rational actors… I’m willing to give Kim the benefit of the doubt on that. Kim is really not my concern here.

I appreciated Tillerson’s recent comments w/r/t NK… I’m glad he could get up from his nap long enough to make them.

I agree… especially if both sides are rational actors. But what evidence do we have that the POTUS is familar in the least w/ those ‘essentials’? I’m sure he got that memo, I’m also pretty sure he didn’t read it.


#27

Our military has already demonstrated an ability to not follow Trump’s orders as necessary. Should Trump order up a first strike, it won’t be executed because that 25th Amendment will get dusted off faster than he can get access to the codes.


#28

Which, in turn, raises another issue even more fundamental than the current NK dust-up: What happen to our government when the President is not considered a legitimate authority? When Trump makes these threats on healthcare or border walls or NK, the “adults” pull him back from the ledge because they know his positions are not serious. But, in time, lower and lower levels of government begin to fancy themselves as “adults” too – where does that take us in terms of the health of the institutions of government. The 25th amendment may take care of Trump, but how do we take care of the institutions left behind?


#29

You know it’s bad when we are hoping Kim is the rational actor because of our serious doubts about the Trumpster. This morning Trump’s comments are being compared to the language of Harry Truman. I think it’s a safe bet the Trumpster did not hand select the ‘fury, the fire, the power’ line; he’s proven his lack of historical knowledge. So, who is writing these pronouncements? Certainly not Kelly or McMaster or Mattis, all of whom I suspect are tearing their hair out.

Is this the Bannon contingent? Is Miller auditioning for the Comms Director position?

After a slight dip in the stock market, Wall St. is acting as if this is business as usual. I listened to someone say this morning that The Street doesn’t take Trump seriously and has decided if war breaks out, nothing much matters anyway.

Yikes! Capitalism at its finest.


#30

Would NK even exist if he used his limited nuclear weapons?? With Obama he would certainly not face retribution. With Trump the end would be certain.

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea said on Wednesday it is “carefully examining” plans for a missile strike on the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam, just hours after U.S. President Donald Trump told the North that any threat to the United States would be met with “fire and fury”.

North Korea has made no secret of plans to develop a nuclear-tipped missile able to strike the United States and has ignored international calls to halt its nuclear and missile programs.

The strike plan would be put into practice at any moment once leader Kim Jong Un makes a decision, a spokesman for the Korean People’s Army (KPA) said in a statement carried by the North’s state-run KCNA news agency.

“The KPA Strategic Force is now carefully examining the operational plan for making an enveloping fire at the areas around Guam with medium-to-long-range strategic ballistic rocket Hwasong-12 in order to contain the U.S. major military bases on Guam including the Anderson Air Force Base,” the spokesman said.

The plan would be reported to the North’s Supreme Command soon, the spokesman said, without citing a date.

On Monday, two US B-1 bombers flew from Guam over the Korean Peninsula as a part of its “continuous bomber presence,” a U.S. official said, in a sign of the strategic importance Guam holds.

In another statement citing a different military spokesman, North Korea also accused the United States of devising a “preventive war” and said any plans to execute this would be met with an “all-out war wiping out all the strongholds of enemies, including the U.S. mainland.”

The United States should stop its “reckless military provocation” against North Korea to avoid any military action, the army spokesman said.

The U.N. Security Council unanimously imposed new sanctions on North Korea on Saturday over its continued missile tests.

Trump ratcheted up the rhetoric against North Korea on Tuesday, saying Pyongyang should not make any more threats against the United States in a meeting with reporters at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

Reporting by Christine Kim and Soyoung Kim; Additional reporting by Idrees Ali in WASHINGTON; Editing by Lincoln Feast


#31

There was something interesting that was pointed out on MSNBC yesterday about Trump’s body language when he made the ‘fury, fire…’ statement. He had his arms wrapped around himself–a rare kind of posture for Trump. It was very much body language that indicated enormous insecurity.


#32

I noticed that too. I thought it was weird. He is always talking with his hands.
Yet he was almost hugging himself during that "speech"
Yes, weird indeed.


#33

I only heard the statement on the radio. I didn’t see it live. Ok, I can agree the body posture was a little odd but I wouldn’t have noticed it if you hadn’t pointed it out. Maybe the room was cold?


#34

Doesn’t anyone find it odd that the Dems and RINOs, who wanted to push Trump into a war with Syria in May, now suddenly are siding with North Korea as if we were the antagonists? It’s almost as if this is a setup to make President Trump out as the bad guy so (((they))) can get rid of him.


#35

Both parties will certainly regret getting rid of Trump as the rebellion against the party system will certainly ensue. The left may crow until it happens to them as they always do.


#36

Interesting to that they are waving pompoms for McMaster while his is pushing for another full scale invasion of Afghanistan, while Trump campaigned on getting out of world conflicts… It’s not really so strange though, the left have (since their last disaster in VietNam) always used their NeoCon infiltrators to instigate the wars that they publicly… wanted… until they didn’t.

I was going to add, but didn’t have any specific quotes at hand, the the ‘mainstream’ republican, even as late as the presidential election were talking tough… almost as tough as repealing obamacare…


#37

It would appear that our fearless leader past sat on this intelligence since 2013… Giving Kim another 4 years to create the situation we are in now…


#38

CHINA SAYS THEY WILL DEFEND NORTH KOREA IF THE US/SOUTH ATTACKS FIRST

"If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so."

AMERICA RELEASES PLANS TO LAUNCH PREEMPTIVE ATTACK WITH B1 BOMBERS


#39

Absolutely happening.


#40

I’m the meantime Congress remains on vacation.

Immediately return you cowards and declare war, or not. The reason we have this NK/Sk problem is because we never declared war in the first place and haven’t in any conflict since.

McConnell and Shumer, put down your cocktails and get your asses back to DC and decide what you want to do.